Cold smoke shop bought sausages.

[Kiska95]

Are you just using a pile of dust? if yes then you need something like a Pro Q smoke generator or as Wade suggests a AMZNPS.

You can make DIY ones that work well, let me know and I will tell you how.

[Midlandsman]

It may be worth adding that temperature is not the sole reason why cold smoking sausage without cure might not be such a good idea. Another reason is you are placing the meat in an anaerobic environment; the exact conditions that botulism requires to grow.

HTH

[essexsmoker]

Yes, just a pile of dust.

I looked at the AMNPS and the tube too.
How much are the pellets and where do you get them from?
Can you just use any pellets like the GMG bags or cookshack ?

[wade]

It may be worth adding that temperature is not the sole reason why cold smoking sausage without cure might not be such a good idea. Another reason is you are placing the meat in an anaerobic environment; the exact conditions that botulism requires to grow.

HTH

No, unless you are planning to smoke for a period of days (or the meat is already contaminated) botulism will not be a problem. Even under ideal conditions it would take several days for the Botulinum spores to produce sufficient levels of toxin that would be considered toxic for most humans.

[essexsmoker]

It may be worth adding that temperature is not the sole reason why cold smoking sausage without cure might not be such a good idea. Another reason is you are placing the meat in an anaerobic environment; the exact conditions that botulism requires to grow.

HTH

No, unless you are planning to smoke for a period of days (or the meat is already contaminated) botulism will not be a problem. Even under ideal conditions it would take several days for the Botulinum spores to produce sufficient levels of toxin that would be considered toxic for most humans.

Yes and the sausage itself if cured will contain nitrates / nitrites which will give an anoxic not anaerobic environment I would imagine.

[Midlandsman]

It may be worth adding that temperature is not the sole reason why cold smoking sausage without cure might not be such a good idea. Another reason is you are placing the meat in an anaerobic environment; the exact conditions that botulism requires to grow.

HTH

No, unless you are planning to smoke for a period of days (or the meat is already contaminated) botulism will not be a problem. Even under ideal conditions it would take several days for the Botulinum spores to produce sufficient levels of toxin that would be considered toxic for most humans.

...and that's the point, with a shop bought product we don't know the standards that it's been prepared to. We just assume that everything's OK. I agree that it's a very remote possibility that there will be a problem but is it worth the risk when the simple addition of a tiny amount of nitrite ensures safety? Sausage products are notorious for causing food-poisoning hence the Roman word for sausage, botulus, being the origin of the word botulism.

Yes and the sausage itself if cured will contain nitrates / nitrites which will give an anoxic not anaerobic environment I would imagine.

My reply was with reference to a shop bought uncured product.

I guess that I'm just a bit risk-averse, but I wouldn't personally smoke sausage without cure.

MM

[wade]

...and that's the point, with a shop bought product we don't know the standards that it's been prepared to. We just assume that everything's OK. I agree that it's a very remote possibility that there will be a problem but is it worth the risk when the simple addition of a tiny amount of nitrite ensures safety? Sausage products are notorious for causing food-poisoning hence the Roman word for sausage, botulus, being the origin of the word botulism.

My reply was with reference to a shop bought uncured product.

I guess that I'm just a bit risk-averse, but I wouldn't personally smoke sausage without cure.

Hmm I think we may not all be talking about the same thing here. Essexsmoker initially asked if it was safe to cold smoke some shop bought sausages as a test for his new cold smoker. The discussion then proceeded along the lines of short term smoking for flavour followed by the sausages being cooked before being eaten. We now seem to be mixing up the conversation by adding in discussion that appears to be more relevant to traditional cured sausages.

A couple of comments on your reply Middlandsman - and I appreciate fully that you are wanting to be cautious.

When you buy sausages from a reputable shop (butchers, supermarket etc) then the food hygiene standard are likely to be very high. They will be conforming to the FSA requirements for food preparation and, as far as you can be with anything you buy to eat, it will be safe. These standards are very conservative and aggressively err on the site of safety. Sausages bought from the local farmer or from a market stall I would be more wary of - but even these producers will be regularly inspected. It is VERY bad practice, but it is not uncommon in certain farmers markets to see packs of sausages sitting at room temperature for extended periods of time before being sold. Even so you do not hear of mass outbreaks of food poisoning from these. The reason is that, yes there will be bacterial growth but at the temperature these are cooked the bacteria will be effectively killed and most of the associated toxins will be broken down. There is still risk yes, but maybe not as much as you would have expected.
Providing they have been properly handled after being bought, when buying good quality sausages from a good butcher or supermarket and then smoking them for an hour or so before correctly cooking them is highly unlikely to significantly increase the risk of food poisoning.

I have searched unsuccessfully for evidence about your statement that "Sausage products are notorious for causing food-poisoning hence the Roman word for sausage, botulus, being the origin of the word botulism". Yes it is accepted by many that butulinum was so names because of its association with a single case of food poisoning in Germany in 1793 that was caused by the eating of a contaminated sausage, but that does not really make sausages notorious for causing food poisoning.

It is always good to be risk-averse but there is a fine line between risk-aversion and paranoia. It may appear that I am responding harshly to to your comments but it concerns me that a on these forums a lot of perfectly safe food is unnecessarily thrown away because people sometimes take a specific aspect and extrapolate it to the extreme in the name of food safety without considering the aspect within the bigger picture.

[derekmiller]

Nicely put, Wade.

Derek.

[Midlandsman]

I agree that it may be a case of "Why is everyone but Midlandsman marching out of step". I'm sure that many will be happy to follow your advice and I also accept that keeping below fridge temperatures should minimise risk. But, I still wouldn't do it...

...and, I'll be in good company. Stanley and Adam Marianski, authors of probably the definitive book on the subject - 'The Home Production of Quality Meat and Sausages' - say:

The step which differentiates smoked sausages from others is the addition of sodium nitrite (Cure #1). This is a must procedure when smoking meats below 170° F (77° C) smoke temperature. Although cases of food poisoning by Clostridium botulinum are very rare, they have one thing in common: they are fatal. If every manufacturer adds nitrite to naturally smoked meats to protect the consumer, a hobbyist should do the same to protect his loved ones. Smoking is done at temperatures from 50° F (10° C) to 140° F (60 °C) and depending on a particular smoker, the humidity levels and the amount of fresh air varies too. The combination of low temperature with evaporating moisture from the sausages and the absence of oxygen creates the right conditions for the growth of the Clostridium botulinum pathogen, the strongest poison known to man.

Whilst I respect and fully understand your viewpoint, it's only fair to point out that to those that follow that at least one acknowledged authority on the subject disagrees.

MM

[essexsmoker]

I've got some GMG pellets on order and I'm going to try and make a holder for them to smoke in.

I will use up the oak dust too as it doesn't matter how much I use because it was free and I have a couple of dustbin bags full.

really enjoyed the thread a lot though.